Manual vs DCT: Personal Take

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction) 04/27/2014 at 11:34 • Filed to: None

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For many of us looking to enjoy the drive, the ability to get there a fraction of a second faster isn't worth giving up the mechanical connection to our cars.

(written in response to a thread in another forum)

This is what's going away, friends. I'm not opposed to the advancement of technology, my worry is that for those of us who prefer engagement with our machines as opposed to isolation, our options are quickly dwindling.

I don't want to tell a computer to shift for me, steer for me, or work the throttle or brakes. With apologies to George Thorogood, when I drive alone, I prefer to be by myself...

jkm7680 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/27/2014 at 11:36

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I just don't like how "Lazy" most things automotive are becoming.

Reverse Cameras- Look behind you.

Automatic Trunk- Use your hands

Start Buttons- Key Key Keyety Key.

RaymondStantz > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/27/2014 at 11:36

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davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > RaymondStantz 04/27/2014 at 11:37

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Ha! Sorry...

extraspecialbitter > jkm7680 04/27/2014 at 11:41

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It sucks, but convenience sells. People view cars like Keurig machines these days.

jkm7680 > extraspecialbitter 04/27/2014 at 11:45

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Yeah, Sadly it's true.

I didn't exactly opt for bare bones. But my B7 has none of the above. I like it that way.

AthomSfere > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/27/2014 at 11:56

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You said it, exactly. The extra level of engagement is well worth the minor performance loss, if there even is one. If I buy a Ferrari maybe with advanced and as fast as that car is I would be OK with losing it, maybe. That doesn't mean I won't still prefer a manual.

RaymondStantz > jkm7680 04/27/2014 at 11:56

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Trunk - who needs one?

Keys - hand crank start

I just don't like how out of touch we've become with our cars.

RaymondStantz > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/27/2014 at 11:58

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It's just perhaps the most beaten to death horse on this entire website.

jkm7680 > RaymondStantz 04/27/2014 at 11:59

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Where else can I store dead Hookers then?

RaymondStantz > jkm7680 04/27/2014 at 12:01

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Dead hooker delete is a popular mod for the S Class crowd, I'm told.

YSI-what can brown do for you > RaymondStantz 04/27/2014 at 12:03

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Besides that horse. Someone should really pick that up.

dogisbadob > jkm7680 04/27/2014 at 12:03

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Unfortunately looking behind you is no longer sufficient because the automakers seem to be allergic to glass, so we got tiny-ass windows with no visibility :(

I wish the government would require cars to have windows you can see out of instead of backup cameras!

dogisbadob > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/27/2014 at 12:05

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What I hate in new cars is throttle cut, where they are programmed to cut the power whenever your foot is on the brake.

Sometimes your car will shut off if you don't keep your foot on the gas at ALL times as if your car has auto-stop. Therefore, when you're at a red light, you need to have one foot on the gas and the other on the brake; this seems to be impossible in some new cars.

Besides the fact that it seems to disable brake torquing for racing and shit, so maybe they're doing it so they can advertise "launch control" and charge you extra for it!

Big Bubba Ray > dogisbadob 04/27/2014 at 12:22

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This. I regularly drive my grandma's 2013 Cadillac SRX and there is literally no visibility out the back windows. You want to merge on to the highway? Floor it and hope nobody is in the next lane. You need to back out of a parking spot? Gun it and hope you don't run over a small child. It's a joke.

dogisbadob > Big Bubba Ray 04/27/2014 at 12:33

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Yeah, sadly, GM seems to be one of the worst offenders. And I really hate the Volt, with that stupid black bar below the side windows. WTF is with that? Why not just extend the glass down a bit more?

jkm7680 > dogisbadob 04/27/2014 at 12:36

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Same! If they are going to require backup cameras. Why not put actual windows in.

I got the chance to drive a Co-Workers '13 Caddy Srx. HUGE blindspot of about a foot on each side of the back window.

jkm7680 > Big Bubba Ray 04/27/2014 at 12:38

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Wat. I just drove a Co-Workers 2013 Srx also. I'm weirded out right now.

There is a blind spot of about one foot on each side of the back window. Best thing about it is the shitty Nav. God damn.

jkm7680 > Big Bubba Ray 04/27/2014 at 12:41

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Ninja Edit: Here's my favorite feature on the Srx.

It's called the "Lost expectations" mode.

Also excellent parking job. Thanks to the huge blind spot.

Big Bubba Ray > jkm7680 04/27/2014 at 12:48

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Haha the blind spots are so bad on those damn cars! I hate driving it, but I chauffeur my grandma around a lot and she hates my Subie so I don't have a choice.

jkm7680 > Big Bubba Ray 04/27/2014 at 12:50

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Haha, I'm about to jump in a Cayenne and go Hooning with it.

Big Bubba Ray > jkm7680 04/27/2014 at 12:59

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KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/27/2014 at 13:02

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Just so the rest of you are happy, when BMW Group sent along their survey of "How do you like your MINI? Oh, and why did you choose the MINI over the other stuff?" I put down as the most important thing "Availability of a manual transmission".

#DoingItJustForYouOppo

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 04/27/2014 at 13:20

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Good man.

PardonMyFlemish16 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/27/2014 at 18:13

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There are more manual transmission performance cars available today than ~10-15 years ago. 2 series, Veloster/Genesis, Fiesta ST, FR-S/BRZ, WRX, etc. etc. etc. Corvette and 911 have new 7 speed manuals. M5 has a manual. The manual is not "going away".

I like the stickshift in my car. I've driven everything from a 458 to a GT-R and I still prefer a good old stickshift. I'm on my 6th stickshift car and my motorcycle is 100% analog. But I think we need to stop romanticising driving stickshift. I didn't like the DCT in the 458 but that didn't ruin the car.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > PardonMyFlemish16 04/27/2014 at 19:25

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I'm lamenting that the option is going away in many cars (not just sports cars), and the new generation of drivers in the US are largely not learning how to drive a standard (the term hardly applies anymore). This means less demand going forward, and that fewer automakers will make it available.

My first car's only saving grace was its manual transmission...

There are some good signs, like BMW being convinced to offer the M5 with a manual in the end (only in North America), and word that the Chevy (Holden) SS will be getting one as well. Hopefully Porsche will be convinced with the GT3, and Nissan with the next Maxima ("four door sportscar" is CVT only? Ugh...).

As incredible as the new DCT transmissions are, as you know, there is something incredibly enjoyable about driving a three-pedal manual. I'm not trying to say that it's somehow inherently superior, but all enthusiasts should be in favor of the option being available to us, and the fact of the matter is, if the business case for offering a manual goes away, we won't see them from many automakers in the future.

PardonMyFlemish16 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/27/2014 at 21:57

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The option isn't going away. If anything, we have more choice now than ever. What car do you want in stickshift that can't be had in stickshift? Exotica like Lamborghinis and Ferraris don't count... if you can afford a new Lambo you can afford an old one with a stickshift, and in any case exotia is irrelevant to 99% of the enthusiast population. In the realm of affordable cars (<$40K), we have more choice now than ever.

Most cars that lost stickshift didn't really gain anything from having them. The Maxima for example.... I have had a few and have had friends with even more of them. Their manual transmissions were awful. Rubbery, long throw shift action and clutches with long pedal strokes and weird engagement points (I think the clutch on mine engaged right off the floor). My friend's 04 with the 5AT was no slower than a 6MT version, and dare I say was as fun if not more to drive in its element (highway speeding). So generally a good car losing stickshift (i.e. GT3) is the exception to the rule... we are pretty much in a golden age of manual transmissions.

If you want to put the blame anywhere, put it on the technological advances of automatic transmissions, and consumers. Stickshift didn't used to be popular because people loved driving... it was more popular because it was cheaper and lower maintenance. Now, for the most part, automatics have taken that spot, while also being significantly easier to operate. Don't get me wrong... again my car resume is all manual and probably will be so as long as I can drive manual. But the idea that stickshift is dying is just false. For every shitty car with a stickshift we lost, we gained 1-2 affordable performance cars with them.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > PardonMyFlemish16 04/27/2014 at 22:28

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To name a couple: new F-Type and the Alfa 4C.

I hope you're right, but I'm afraid you're wrong. Time will tell. All I know is, it will take enthusiasts continuing to chose manual transmissions over the now "superior" dual-clutch options in large enough numbers (at least 10% of sales per model, perhaps?) for the automakers to keep offering them.